Who would like an All original Class for cars at our Convent

Rich,

I support this effort to establish an HPOF style class for the NDC show. As an AACA judge, I've seen this class grow and garner more interest year after year.

Mark

Hey guys,

Personally I like factory original cars as much or more than the next guy. But I'll be darned if I'll sacrifice a nice looking original color repaint for crappy weathered 56 year old original paint. Same for halogen headlights that look perfectly original that you have to practically use a magnifying glass to read the word halogen and are a safety feature. Ditto for Kelsey-Hayes wire wheels that were designed specifically for Chrysler as an available dealer accessory. Original size radial tires fall in this category as well.

I take pride in my car and if I can make it better in appearance and safer but still be original within MoPar accessory availability, reproduction items like interiors, etc. and safety items, I'm perfectly satisfied in addition to it being more appealing. If I lose points because of this to the judges, so be it - I won't change it.

I respect rules and regulations and I'll be honest here, I'm only interested in satisfying myself as well as others that appreciate improvements without ruining originality in appearance.

"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"

Fred: I perfectly understand your position onthis topic. We are not saying that you cannot restore your car with factory accessories and what ever other changes you personally would like to do to your car. That is your personal choice.

Yes there are some people that like to keep an original car and just upkeep the car and this is a different type of car owner.

But to your point about radials on our older cars, the AACA does not consider them safety items, This topic has been brought up at the Annual AACA general meeting that is held in Philadelphia every year. The reason is that the original cars suspension and geometry were not made to support the roll and design or radial tires. You mentioned halogen headlights on a car. Yes they may give you a better or brighter light for night time driving, So if you want to put these on a car then be prepared to have point deducted in a judged event if the judges are aware that these are incorrect. So we can not please everyone on every topic but the object is to permit a car owner that has still retained a significant amount of original features and components to show their car in this aspect. In all reality most of the owners in the hobby have made changes to their own liking and most of our cars are considered drivers and not real show cars in which they are put in trailers and not driven to a show.

Rich HArtung
Desoto1939@aol.com

Good morning Rich,

I'm not trying to start a debate here.....but......

Radial tires: The AACA position regarding these tires for safety reasons is archaic with respect to automobiles with independent front suspensions.

Every comment I have ever heard or read is that radial tires improve the ride, handling, traction, and tracking over bias ply tires. If this isn't an improvement in safety I don't know what it is. The alignment geometry/specs on most, if not all automobiles, is different between radials and bias tires and any alignment shop worth their salt knows this and has the information for proper alignment either way.

From personal experience I can attest to that and from this experience I prefer radials any day. Had my DeSoto not had new Coker Goodyear Super Cushion bias ply tires on when I bought it, you can bet there would be radials on it now.

"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"

All the topic at hand suggests is that we ADD an opportunity to recognize and applaud the owners that are fortunate enough to have a car that still retains a significant amount of originality. The suggestion to add HPOF designation for the NDC isn't taking away anybody's already assumed ability to enjoy their car as best they see fit.

The AACA guidelines are actually pretty strict in terms of allowable upgrade/maintenance/restoration if I understand the HPOF designation. I have a judges guideline in my desk so maybe I'll have an opportunity to read up on it.

In order for the HPOF designation to carry any weight and respectability, in my opinion we will need to enlist some very knowledgeable people to evaluate cars that are seeking HPOF status. I am personally aware of cars that have gained HPOF status in the AACA that were restored many many years ago.

Rich,
Since I was the one who started all of this I too would like to see an HPOF class for the NDC. It would make for some good references on model years so one could know what came from the factory in that year. I have a small collection of Ross Roy books which have aided me immensely when judging a specific year. My car is still in original paint, which is peeling, but I'm not changing that as it only original once, not redone to original.
My humble opinion.

Chris

I would like to thank everyone that is adding valuable comments to this discussion thread.

Yes the AACA has a guide/judging rules suggestions on what counts as an HPOF car. Actually they had two classification for HPOF, 1. HPOF car with some original features. 2 Original HPOF. most older cars will get the 1st stage of just HPOF - in this stage a car can be repainted and they understand that but they are looking to see that the car is retaining some of the original features such as interior, headlining, engine correctness, trans and rearend drive sahft with original u joints such as the detroit u joints that we use on our Desoto. The Original HPOF is looking for the total original car un restored or not molested to any major degree.

We do not have to go to this extent but could make our own rules of what we want to see in the NDC HPOF classification. Right now our own NDC judging sheet that we use is not even close to what the AACA uses. So we can not compare ourselves to the AACA style of judging.

So the point is to permit a car owner that feels that tif they think they have a car with some of important original features still on their car that they could show the car in a special classs and not be point judged against cars that have been resotored or had a good partial restoratioin. Also this permits future and current owners to see what mother MoPAr delivered with a car and if someone wanted to restore a car back to FACTORY spec they would have some starting points.

Remember this is a hobby for most of us and yes we do have some members that can afford to do an AACA senior or Grand NAtional awarded car and I applaud these owners and I do not want to take anything away from them they also deserve their day in the sun shine.

Keep the comments coming and maybe the board will take this up as an idea for nest years convention.

Rich Hartung Desoto1939@aol.com

I think it was in the other thread regarding the 2016 Convention that I mentioned having made a motion to the board to begin discussion on creating the class.

I think it's a great idea and agree that we can make our own criteria. I do think that starting with the groundwork already laid down by the AACA is a good starting point.

Tim, You are correct about where you posted a reply on the topic of the HPOF class under the 2016 Convention.

Since this was down in one of the replies I felt that some people might not read the discussion thread so took the opportunity to start a new fresh discussion so that all members could add their comment pro or con.

Glad to see that the club is thinking for the future. Also please thank the person that brought up the topic at the Board Meeting.

Yes we can modify our own qualifications
for the NDC to meet our criteria for HPOF and then modify as needed.
Rich HArtung

Yeah guys, now we're talkin' - two classes of HPOF - I like that idea.

The full, all original, HPOF would remain just that. The HPOF** could include 4 or 5 visible differences that would still represent originality but be a tad different from factory original but original in appearance - like a re-paint in the factory original color(s), tires, battery, hose clamps, headlights, mufflers (getting pretty picky on this one), etc. But anyway, my point is made - there would probably be enough participation that not all the cars would have the same 4 or 5 differences and that would still allow for comparison purposes to factory original.

Example: DeSoto A might have non factory hose clamps and a re-paint in the factory original color, everything else is factory original, DeSoto B might have a new headliner, halogen headlights, a re-paint in the factory original color, and a different battery. DeSoto C might have dealer installed MoPar accessory fender skirts, the very popular Kelsey-Hayes wire wheels, and a repaint in factory original color(s). All of these DeSotos are under the 4 or 5 allowable differences but still represent orginality and fall into the HPOF** class with some different "differences".

Yeah, I like it - gets my vote.

"It's delightful, it's delovely, it's DeSoto"

Fred: Now people are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. So this way we might be able to please more of our owners and they do not have to be worried about how pristine their cars are.

Need to keep the club moving in a positive manner and this is just a start.

Also there should be a judges seminar at every convention. This could be open for all members to attend. This would be away to get the women and husbands and also the kids involved. It would then let everyone know how the judging is going to happen, provides example of what is great quality middle of the road and also poor quality. This is not to put down any car owner but to help the owners understand the way a car is judged and so they would understand why points were not awarded or why they only got a certain score in a category.

Rich HArtung