Brake conversion kits from Kanter- 1955 Firedome Model S-22

Edward

Just think if you had gone the GM route - the 1955 Olds used the same 191.7
sq inches of Brake Surface as their 1952's. Drive one of them with smaller
brakes and near your weight around town.

Please look to left of the screen and click Resources. Go down to 1955 and
contact Mark for some help with your brakes.

Or you may contact all of The Year Techs for this is an item that was about
the same from The S-11's to yours.

Rodger & Gabby
COS

Ed,

This is the Mark that Rodger mentions. I'm the '55 Model Year Coordinator and I believe we have spoken before. Feel free to call me to discuss your brakes. With the assistance of two local club members I recently had the front brakes on my '55 redone. I bought the car in the early '80's and shortly thereafter had the brakes redone all around with the assistance of another local club member when I still lived in Ohio. At that time, we replaced all the rubber brake hoses, honed the wheel cylinders, put in new rubber cups and springs in the wheel cylinders and replaced the brake shoes. The club member who helped me was very skilled and the quality of his work showed in the test of time: that brake job lasted 30+ years and 20,000 miles of trouble free driving with only simple brake adjustments.

Finally this year, one of the two right front wheel cylinders started to leak and the shoe started to grab. Now in Kentucky, I reached out to a fellow club member with a '41 Dodge who is a retired aircraft mechanic. He runs the wheels off his Dodge and is also skilled in all facets of MoPar mechanics. We encountered the same problem as you, i.e., after honing the wheel cylinders and replacing shoes we could not get the drums on even after the drums were machined. Fortunately, another local club member came to our aid. He once owned a large brake shop in Louisville and still had a machine that matches the shoes to the drums. He shaved a little off the shoes, matched them to the drum and we proceeded to complete the job. He also provided a brake gauge tool he still had from the old days that allows you to adjust the shoe placement before the drum is installed. So far, so good.

In case you haven't noticed, there is common thread here: local club members coming to your aid. If you are not involved in a local car club already, I strongly urge you to find one that fits your personality and type of car. If you happen to live where there is an NDC chapter, that is great. I would also encourage you to seek a local A.A.C.A. chapter. The local club I belong to is an A.A.C.A. chapter and we have made many friends as a result of becoming active in that club. Several have to come to my aid and supported my limited mechanical skills. Local club members will likely provide you assistance and will certainly know of local shops that are willing to work on old cars and know what they are doing.

Good luck, and please call anytime.

Mark

Get ahold of AJ Brakes in Portland Or. (Roger I think). who makes and sells a complete conversion to dual m/c and front disc brakes but who advised me to just get a new 1975 dodge Dart m/c for non power drum brakes which I did via ebay Centric stock no. 130 63018. I took it apart and drilled and tapped the end for the brake lite sender (clean it thoroughly afterward) and it mounted directly to the old location with a slight modification to the push-rod. I took the brass dist. block off the frame and soldered one opening and ran a new line from the top opening in the fitting to the REAR port of the new m/c then I ran new lines to each front wheel off the other two ports of the dist. block. I then ran a new line from the FRONT m/c port to the dist. block on the rear axle and new lines to each rear wheel from that block. Don't damage those two brass dist. blocks cause they are hard to come by. As far as the brakes themselves, good luck and it is really good advice to find many mopar friends, especially someone with a mopar wheel-puller. dave

Anyone have any experience with these kits? anything I may get blindsided by? I tried to replace new shoes (not NOS) but the china ones (and wheel cylinders)and hell I could not get the drum back over the brakes. So the drums need to be turned or filed? The car is heavy, is a driver not a show car and my wife and I would like to take trips with the car. I am afraid the single master cylinder system is not appropriate for modern traffic. This brake job is beyond my capablities especially without a lift and in a small garage. I will have a pro do the conversion but it appears the dual power cylinder Kanter sells will not fit the Model S-22?

Why oh why did I have to buy an old DeSoto? The car is like a barge....

Edwarddinaro,

I have front disc brakes on my 1947 Desoto 9 passenger and 4-wheel disc brakes on my 1949 Desoto.

All the kits require some customization. Don't let anyone tell you different. Sometimes it is a small thing and sometimes a big thing.

That said, go to the source of the maker of the kit. Someone like Kanter is just re-selling someone else's kit.

One place you can try is ECI ( http://www.ecihotrodbrakes.com/ ) I have used them for some stuff a couple of times. Their stuff worked, but I had to make some modifications. But, keep in mind that the stuff I got from them was not designed specifically for my model cars.

A place to look also is the folks at http://www.tsmmfg.com/

**************

As an aside I just but the first 200 miles on the 1949. This car has a stock master cylinder, albeit brass sleeved, all new hard lines and all steel bradded DOT Russell racing soft lines. I use a brand new Midland-Ross (still being made) slave master cylinder with a 8.5" remote power booster. This goes out to a 4-wheel disc brake system with the rears using a GM Eldorado caliper with a built in parking brake. The fronts are standard GM calipers.

I have to tell everyone that the combination of the 4 wheel disc, the Midland-Ross booster, and the stock M/C stops this car almost too good.

Best, James

Thanks to all thus far. hmmmmm I might be better off getting a pro machinist to carefully turn the drums to get the new shoes to fit? I ordered new wheel cylinders all around also and a rebuilt single cylinder. Maybe I am better off foregoing the modern disc rebuild? I just want to be sure the car will stop more effciently then now. I plan on driving the car at least 5,000 miles a year......

OK, the anchor point also rotates and is a cam for adjusting the brakes. Rotate them til the arrows point at each other. If you have full thickness shoes that have not been arced, you may have to find an old-timey mechanic guy with a brake lathe that also arcs shoes to fit the drum. DO turn the drums to true them up, but DO NOT turn them to make the shoes fit. You make the shoes fit the drum.

The '55 DeSoto (and earlier) has one of the best braking systems ever made. True, you can make it safer with the installation of a dual circuit system, but you won't find a better period brake system, period!?

Have a nice day
Steve

Steve,

I'll have to agree about the '55 brakes. When properly adjusted and in good working order I have no problem bringing my '55 to a quick, straight stop and that is without power brakes. It definitely takes time, know-how and some old-time knowledge of drum brakes, but no need to deep six the brake system unless you are going to drive the car every day in rush hour freeway traffic.

Mark

Steve and Mark,

I have to take issue with the thought that "The '55 DeSoto (and earlier) has one of the best braking systems ever made"

When these brake systems are in perfect working order they will stop the car. However, they are inferior in the following ways:

1. Brake fade.
2. Stopping Distance.
3. High speed stopping directional stability.
4. Not self adjusting.

In and around Northern California we have intense traffic, mountains, and in San Francisco very big city street hills. In driving classic cars in this environment since I was 16, I call tell you that the old drum brakes are not one of the best brake systems ever made.

My 1966 Barracuda with front discs would out stop anything from the 1950's. My 1966 MGB with Discs would out stop almost anything distance wise from 65 MPH. My 1964 XKE with 4 wheel discs would stop straight as an arrow from 100 MPH.

If the 1955 Desoto brake design were such a good design, then why were they changed?

I have in my garage a brake shoe arc tool and a shoe setting gauge. My drum system cars are set up correct. My 5000 pound Desoto Suburban experienced brake fade on a regular basis going down large mountain roads. At 65-70 MPH on the Freeway if some idiot cuts you off and jumps on their anti-lock brakes it is almost impossible to stop straight with locked up front drums. I know I have had to try it.

The real problem is the disparity between the abilities of the older cars with drum brakes and the new cars with anti-lock disc systems. Even if you leave a lot of stopping distance, you get people who drop into that space and then jump on their brakes. This disparity can get you hurt or killed.

I run single master cylinder systems most of the time on my old cars. I don't worry to much about that as I control the maintenance schedule.

The real reason I converted my cars to disc is that I hate to have to get under the car every 2 months and jack it up and adjust the brake shoe linings. I drive nothing but classic cars. We have no modern cars. With the number of stop signs and stop lights here in San Francisco, the brakes take a beating and wear fast.

I drive around all the time with a good friend, in his 70's, in a 1946 Chrysler Town & Country convertible. No seat belts. I restored his 12" drum brake system. It stops nice for a car of that vintage. But, we rarely go faster than 55-60 on the freeway. We always leave a ton of run in front even if we have to slow to get it. The car does not see more than 1000 miles a year so it does not need to be adjusted much.

The issue of stock drum vs. disc really has more to do with the intended use of a classic car, the level of maintenance you wish to do, and the environment the car is used in.

James

OK, I give! an XKE will stop straight as an arrow from 100MPH. As far as drum brakes go, 55 and earlier DeSoto brakes are about as good as it gets.

Have a ice day
Steve

Edward, I had the same problem when I replaced wheel cylinders and linings in my 53. It ended up that the wheel cylinder pistons did not have the right travel. I finally got the correct ones from our "buddies" at Mitchells. They were a reasonable price when I bought them. So check this out before you start trimming and shaving everything. The brake cylinders for the 53 were Wagner and fit and work well.

Edward, I had the same problem when I replaced wheel cylinders and linings in my 53. It ended up that the wheel cylinder pistons did not have the right travel. I finally got the correct ones from our "buddies" at Mitchells. They were a reasonable price when I bought them. So check this out before you start trimming and shaving everything. The brake cylinders for the 53 were Wagner and fit and work well.

Paul is correct about wheel cylinder issues. One issue I have seen is that some of the wheel cylinder kits include a new pushrod. That is the round thing with a forked end that pushes on the brake shoe from the wheel cylinder. There are different size ones and many of the later ones in the kits are too long. What this does is make it so that the shoes will not go far enough down to get the drum on. You think that you have an issue with something else for days until you figure it out.

One thing I do on all of the MOPAR drum brake systems of those years is to take the lower anchor bolts and put a slit on the head of the bolt. (I even had one friend who took them to his machinist and they milled a hex key in for an Allen Head.)

This slit allows you to turn the heel adjusting cam from the OUTSIDE with the drum on. You have to leave the nut a little loose to do this and make sure the bolt shaft and cam are smooth and lubricated.

With this arrangement you can put the drum on and adjust the shoe heel (anchor), with the upper adjustment all the way off, and then bring the upper into adjustment. Then you pull the drum off carefully and tighten the heel bolts without them moving (hopefully).

I usually do this now and I do not use the Ammco tool much anymore. I draw chalk marks across the face of the shoe about 1 inch apart. I then adjust as above and turn the drum. I have someone press light on the brake as I do this so the drum will drag on the shoes. I then take off the drum and "read" the chalk lines. When I have a the shoes adjusted so that ALL the lines get smeared equally, I know I have the things adjusted correct.

All this assumes a perfect turned drum and shoes arced correctly on a brake shoe arc machine to the drum final diameter.

James

Good info James. In my case the wheel cylinder pistons were actually longer. Otherwise, I could have just swapped the pushrods since I still had these in hand. It had me scratching my head for awhile. The parts I have bought from Mitchell's have been right on. That $400 starter relay was really inexcusable. I hope they are not getting excessively greedy on everything.

Good info James. In my case the wheel cylinder pistons were actually longer. Otherwise, I could have just swapped the pushrods since I still had these in hand. It had me scratching my head for awhile. The parts I have bought from Mitchell's have been right on. That $400 starter relay was really inexcusable. I hope they are not getting excessively greedy on everything.

Frank has always been the most expensive source for parts. But, he has things that no one else has. So, since we pay it, I guess the free market has spoken. On the other hand, sometimes Frank is cheaper. I need a dozen of those little rubber parts that hold down the running boards. Lyn Steele wants $7 each. Frank has a lot of them NOS and "tells me" that they are still pliable. I can get 10 of them for $20.

*******

One thing I have noticed is that since eBay has built more and more "store fronts" that people put of their parts on them and then let the parts sit. 10 years ago when they had to put them in as an auction, it kept prices down. Now prices are staying up as eBay is nothing but a modern version of "Western Auto".

James