Looking for a steering box for 1949 1st series S11

@Carl Nutaitis is working on his steering box for his '41 and is also simultaneously planning a rebuild on his '48 S-11. He might be able to provide some input here.

If you decide to send yours off to a rebuilder, many people use Lares Corporation in Minnesota.

You might also try posting your question on the NDC Facebook page.  Such requests usually receive good advice.

Hi there @jackharrington,

I am currently in the process of completely rebuilding the front suspension, including the tie-rod ends and steering gearbox, in my 1941 DeSoto.  The steering gearbox used in 1941 and 1948, (and theoretically the 1st series 1949 DeSotos), all use a Gemmer 3 steering gearbox.  The 2nd series 1949 DeSotos use a completely different gearbox and steering linkage setup, so make sure you are searching for parts for a 1946-48 DeSoto.

What is the condition of the steering box from your car?  Is it leaking oil?  The steering gear oil seals tend to leak after 75+ years.  Is there slop in the steering?  There are two adjustments that can be made on the steering gearbox depending on where in the turning radius the play or tight spots are at.  There are also 4 rubber bushings that are in the pitman arm, and are commonly overlooked, that can cause a LOT of play when the wheel is on center.

Unfortunately, there aren't any new steering gearboxes being made.  No-one reproduces the entire gearbox.  I do not know of anyone stocking rebuilt units either.  Your options are to either rebuild the current one from your car, find a parts car with a Gemmer 3 gearbox (although, it will likely require a rebuild too), or send it out to be rebuilt.  As David suggested, the go-to company that is familiar with these worm-gear style Gemmer 3 steering gearboxes is Lares Corporation.  Unless the cast iron casting of your gearbox is cracked, you are likely best off rebuilding the one from your car.

They aren't very complicated gearboxes.  The wear parts are as follows:  An upper and lower caged tapered roller bearing + bearing races, two bronze bushings for the cross shaft, a cross shaft gear oil seal, and end-plate adjusting shims.  When rebuilding a Gemmer 3 gearbox, those are the items replaced in the rebuild process.  Many of the rebuild kits do not include the end-plate adjusting shims.  You can either make your own or buy them separately.

I would highly recommend you check out "Keith's Garage" on YouTube.  He has a two part video series completely disassembling a Gemmer steering gearbox from his 1938 Plymouth.  I believe his is technically a Gemmer type 2, but it is very similar to the Gemmer 3.  He shows the removal, complete disassembly, assessment of the existing parts, and reassembly.  If you watch both of the videos, it should give you a pretty good idea of what you'd be getting yourself into if you were to rebuild it yourself.  The main difference between his Plymouth and our DeSotos is that the cross shaft of the gearbox in the Plymouth connects to a drag link protruding into the driver's side wheel well, while the cross shaft in our DeSotos connects to a pitman arm underneath the car.

As for personal experience rebuilding one, I haven't started the actual disassembly of the steering gearbox itself yet on my '41 DeSoto, but I have removed it from the car.  The removal process is probably more difficult/involved than the replacing of parts in the gearbox itself.  You will need a steering wheel puller, a pitman arm puller, and a 1-7/16 socket, along with a good SAE socket set, and a set of jack stands and a trusted floor jack.  It can be removed by one person (that's how I did it), but two people would be helpful for when you remove the last bolt holding the gearbox to the frame.  The gearbox is then lowered out from under the car.  The entire column comes out with the gearbox, so it can be a bit awkward to remove it.  You cannot separate the gearbox from the column while it is in the car due to the fact that the steering shaft runs the entire length of the column and it is in mesh with the cross shaft.  The car will have to be at least 2ft. high on jack stands to get enough clearance.  A lift would be helpful, but it is not required.  There is a large 1-7/16 nut on the end of the cross shaft coming out of the gearbox that connects to the pitman arm.  That nut is torqued to 125ft.-lb., so it will take quite a bit to break it free, an impact gun will help break it free.  You must remove the steering wheel and column shift selector rod as well.  (<- Please note, those steps aren't in order, the correct order is outlined in the DeSoto shop manual, but those are the main items of caution as far as the removal process goes).

I do not recommend taking on this job yourself if you are not comfortable working on your back, or if you do not have a safe way to jack up the car.  I removed my gearbox laying on my back with the car on jack stands, but I had multiple jack stands in place, along with two backup methods to catch the car if one of the jack stands were to fail.  I don't mean to intimidate you, but it is not a quick job.  It would certainly make for a good Winter project with Winter quickly approaching!

Carl

So you don't have to go searching for the videos that I was referring to, here are direct links to the two videos from "Keith's Garage".  I am in no way endorsed by Keith, but I have learned a TON from his videos!  Many of the subjects he discusses can be applied to any late 1930's to mid 1950's MoPars.

"Vintage MoPar Steering Boxes Demystified Part 1":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ox9mZVLYysQ

"Vintage MoPar Steering Gear Box Service Part 2":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV-zliWv5eU

Carl

@markkubancik Thanks Carl, this is very helpful. This all started when I brought my DeSoto into a local shop that works on older Mopars for a front end alignment. My steering always had a lot of play but I have just lived with it for years. The owner of the shop found that I need two king pins which I have already located. He also recommended replacing my steering box due to excessive play and the car would handle much better. However, he did say the the steering box was not a showstopper. The car definitely needs an alignment as I went through a set off fat whitewall tires on the front in less than 10k miles.

@jackharrington I saw your post on Facebook as well regarding your steering gearbox.  I can see the dilemma you are in.  Unfortunately, I do not know of anyone who sells already rebuilt Gemmer 3 steering gearboxes that you can buy and send your original back for a core refund.

Out of curiosity, have you asked the shop you are working with if they are willing to try to rebuild your steering gearbox?  I know many shops are hesitant to rebuild components that they are not familiar with and cannot easily warranty their work.  But I'm not sure if the shop you are working with realizes how simple they are?  As I stated in my initial post, getting the steering gearbox out is the tricky part.  Once it is out, there are only a few moving pieces that comprise the gearbox.  The main two items that wear are the lower caged tapered roller bearing and the oil seal.  The tapered caged roller bearings are very similar to wheel bearings.  If the shop knows how to install wheel bearing races and knows how to pack a wheel bearing, they should be able to handle replacing the bearings and races in the steering gearbox.

Not that I want to doubt the competence of the shop/mechanic you are working with, but I would highly recommend you have them double-check and take a look at the 4 rubber bushings in the pitman arm.  Countless tie-rod ends and steering gearboxes have been rebuilt/replaced over the years on this vintage of MoPar cars, only to find there is still excessive play in the steering linkage, and in reality, the 4 rubber bushings were the true culprit.

Here are two pictures for reference from my 1941 DeSoto before I disassembled the steering linkage.  I circled in red the pitman arm and where the 4 rubber bushings are located.  You can literally see the remnants of the rubber bushings oozing out of the pitman arm!

 Carl