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I'm slowly fixing up a 53 Firedome estate wagon, After I bought it, I found that the serial number proves the engine is from a 56 Firedome. Today I changed the oil for the first time, expecting to find that the engine needs 12 quarts, because of the engine-fed torque converter. What I found is a coupling device behind the engine, in front of the clutch, which drives an M6 tip-toe shift transmission. There's no reservoir near the clutch assembly, so I was sure this was an engine-fed TC. But it's not. It was full of ATF, no engine oil in sight. Is there a third, self-contained, put ATF in me, option for a torque converter? Or am I looking at a fluid coupling? Are there any hints from how it drives? Pulls hard at idle, has absolutely crappy acceleration if, as is usual, the tip-toe has not dropped into under drive at a stop sign.
Maybe I need to throw that M6 stuff away and replace it with a slightly newer torque flight? Kick-down will never work as the 65 carb lacks the kick-down switch and electric stall prevention the 53 is supposed to have. Hoping for some expert advice.
Thanks. I have most of the fluid that spurted out of the warm converter, whatever it is, all over my face and clothes removed now. More of my sad stories at http://jeb53desoto.blogspot.com .
John
It's still fun. I keep telling myself.
John Boyd
San Diego, California
Member National Desoto Club and Airflow Club of America
drjohn96@me.com
1936 S2 Airflow sedan (1)
1937 Chrysler Airflow sedan (2)
John
Open the plug on The Fluid Drive Unit and get rid of The ATF Stuff. It has a
added chemical in it that will soon make the seals "... go away".
The Transmission Part uses a very light grade of Motor Oil.
All The M4 to M6 Transmissions have a Fluid Drive.
Prior to 1970 --- no MoPar Automatic had a "rolling partial throttle
kick-down". A driver had to completely "floor it" and then wait for the action
to happen.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
Rodger & Gabby
COS
FltSgt@outlook.com
Here's some info you might find interesting
http://www.allpar.com/mopar/fluidrive.html
http://www.duricy.com/~desoto/despatch/ ... d;id=24245
I think there was an after market product called "super-shift?" which allowed you to downshift by pushing a button. Does anyone remember this?
Once you sort out your shifting woes you should be good to go!
Have a nice day
Steve
John,
Do you have the Optional Torque Converter?
The easiest way to tell, is to look at your lower radiator hose, where it come out of the block. If there is an oil cooler on it, you have it.
Otherwise, you only have a Fluid Drive.
My '52 Firedome hardly spins the tires on ice, with just the Fluid Drive. The Optional Torque Converter, changes the ratio, but not by much.
Mark Waite
Mark Waite
John
If --- the car had The Option #2, of Automatic's - It would read Fluid Torque
Drive at the head of the shift assembly. The Standard Version just has Fluid
Drive.
I have never looked at A De Soto with this Option. But - I have many Chrysler's.
Rodger & Gabby
COS
FltSgt@outlook.com
Thanks to all for your help and advice.
Rodger and Gabby, I don't see any markings near the shift lever or shift quadrant, neither Fluid Drive nor Fluid Torque Drive. So no help there.
Mark, there is no transmission or torque converter cooler on this engine, but the car has had an engine swap. I have the '56 330 Firedome engine, according to the decoded serial number. Since I don't know how the engine swap was done, I can't be sure whether the original one had a cooler.
Steve, the manual switch for kick down might be what I need.
The shop manual for this car is consistent with Rodger's mention of an M6 optional torque converter. It describes two kinds -- one with a reservoir and pump (I don't have that), and one engine-fed (don't have that either. So I'm going to assume its a fluid coupling only, not a torque converter. I plan to run through as many of the M6 diagnostics as I can and see if I can get it to downshift at stoplights at least. Governor, solenoid, interrupter switch...I think I understand what they are supposed to do now. I'll post the results on my blog for any who care to track my progress.
John Boyd
San Diego, California
Member National Desoto Club and Airflow Club of America
drjohn96@me.com
1936 S2 Airflow sedan (1)
1937 Chrysler Airflow sedan (2)
John
In The Crasler Division there is a lil cast tab that is at the head of the Shift Unit.
It is placed so the driver can glance down-ward and see this Fluid Drive or Fluid
Torque Drive item. You can also see enough of it looking through The Driver's Window, beats lifting the hood or crawling around under the car.
The Fluid Drive ( either design ) and M-6 Transmission's are all Pre-External Cooling times.
Rodger & Gabby
Colo Spgs
FltSgt@outlook.com
John
...All The M4 to M6 Transmissions have a Fluid Drive....
COS
Roger,
That is not strictly correct.
There was a late M6 that was behind a "Fluid-Torque-Drive". And, to ad insult to injury they made TWO version of the combination. The early one did NOT share the oil with the engine, while the later one did.
If one has a "Motor's Auto Repair Manual" that covers about 1940 to 1955, in the Chrysler section they cover these combinations with cut away graphics.
Best, James
Jon
Here is a link to a 1953 De Soto Sales Brochure ... http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/mopar/ ... lder/6.jpg and a
1953 Chrysler Sales Brochure ( The De Soto is a mechanical cousin and
most every thing else cousin to The Windsor Series ).
The Engineered Tech Knowledge of a complete working Torque Convertor
was not solved by Chrysler Engineering yet. Because of this you have
have a clutch. The true Torque Convertor that all now know was not used
( introduced ) until The Power Flite Automatic was used ( starting in The
1954 Production Year ).
This is why a driver of your type of transmission pushes in The Clutch and
then fully releases it only after the gear selection has been completed. The
clutch is not used until the vehicle is needed to go the other direction ...
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/mopar/ ... lder/5.jpg / or ...
http://www.lov2xlr8.no/brochures/chrysl ... lder/8.jpg ( with
either The Fluid Drive or The Fluid Torque Drive --- of any year they were
made and used ).
Note: Yes - there is one design that does uses Motor Oil from the engine and
one design that is self contained. You have The Self Contained Fluid Drive
Design that uses Hydraulic Fluid #32 in the Fluid Drive Unit.
Rodger & Gabby
FltSgt@outlook.com
I love love love these type of discussions!!!!
I have 2 each 1952 S17's and under the hood, they are different with pulleys and stuff.....Makes a person wonder about the rapid changes within the model years and between the different assembly plants!!!
Love love love the information exchanges here!
